Building upon many years of privately shared thoughts on the real benefits of Stoic Philosophy, Liam Milburn eventually published a selection of Stoic passages that had helped him to live well. They were accompanied by some of his own personal reflections. This blog hopes to continue his mission of encouraging the wisdom of Stoicism in the exercise of everyday life. All the reflections are taken from his notes, from late 1992 to early 2017.
The Death of Marcus Aurelius
Thursday, April 14, 2022
Sayings of Ramakrishna 149
The disciple should never criticise his own Guru. He must implicitly obey whatever his Guru says.
Says a Bengâli couplet:
Though my Guru may visit taverns and stills, My Guru is holy Rai Nityânanda still.
But now we're back to having a decent idea of right and wrong before you trust a guru. It really seems that it's not something you can always go into "cold."
I'm not trying to be a jerk here btw. After seeing this yesterday, I spent a fair amount of time staring at a wall wondering why I trust who I trust and what it would take for me to trust someone new.
My faculty for trusting spiritual or moral leadership (when it's a person) is not very high. That's probably on me, not this, but it's something I gotta reason through.
I have never known you to be jerk, so you need not worry!
Might this help? Recall the Paradox in the Meno, where the problem is how can you learn something if you don't know what to look for, and why do you need to look for it if you already know it? Perhaps the same pattern applies here.
Socrates resolved it by pointing to the innate capacity of the mind, the process of "recollection". There is already something present, however hazy, with which we can work.
For the Stoic, for example, it is a general desire for the good, even when we have not yet broken it down and defined it thoroughly. We will, slowly but surely, if we act with integrity, form a complete conscience out of that disposition.
Here with Ramakrishna I suggest two parts: the earnestness, or true dedication, of the will, joined together with the ability to discern the consistency in the behavior of others.
We follow the wrong people when we 1) are playing fast and loose with that dedication, and 2) we are overlooking the contradictions between their words and deeds.
The simpler way to say that is probably "by their fruits shall you know them." The good or the evil in something become apparent by the harmony or the disharmony within the whole, however imperfect the view.
Grace plays a role here as well, of course, for Ramakrishna, as it similarly would for a Christian. This helps to nurture and strengthen the growing conscience.
Your mileage may vary, but every case of mistaken trust I have faced came from jumping the gun and avoiding the obvious signs. They were going to be who they were, and I let a powerful passion blind my judgment. Those errors are not to be agonized over, for they can be transformed into a lesson for the next time.
Yes, you are quite right that we don't start "cold". Nothing comes from nothing. There is rightly discerning a guru, and THEN there is obediently following him. But with only a piece of the whole to work with, trust will be required. If those intentions are pure, Providence does provide.
Good food for thought here. Lots to think about in terms of forming one's judgement. Especially as a parent responsible for helping little people to form theirs.
Providence does provide, but sometimes not without a lot of pain.
You've got to have a pretty good idea of right and wrong already for this one to work, I think.
ReplyDeleteBut if you already knew, then why would you need the guru? ;-) The conundrum of trust!
ReplyDeleteTrust...that's the kicker, isn't it? Not every teacher is worthy of it. How do you know when to take that risk?
DeleteMany of Ramakrishna's other Sayings provide a context for how to distinguish the righteous from the wicked man. Also, see Saying 145.
DeleteBut now we're back to having a decent idea of right and wrong before you trust a guru. It really seems that it's not something you can always go into "cold."
DeleteEarnest to be good, not yet good . . .
DeleteI'm not trying to be a jerk here btw. After seeing this yesterday, I spent a fair amount of time staring at a wall wondering why I trust who I trust and what it would take for me to trust someone new.
ReplyDeleteMy faculty for trusting spiritual or moral leadership (when it's a person) is not very high. That's probably on me, not this, but it's something I gotta reason through.
I have never known you to be jerk, so you need not worry!
DeleteMight this help? Recall the Paradox in the Meno, where the problem is how can you learn something if you don't know what to look for, and why do you need to look for it if you already know it? Perhaps the same pattern applies here.
Socrates resolved it by pointing to the innate capacity of the mind, the process of "recollection". There is already something present, however hazy, with which we can work.
For the Stoic, for example, it is a general desire for the good, even when we have not yet broken it down and defined it thoroughly. We will, slowly but surely, if we act with integrity, form a complete conscience out of that disposition.
Here with Ramakrishna I suggest two parts: the earnestness, or true dedication, of the will, joined together with the ability to discern the consistency in the behavior of others.
We follow the wrong people when we 1) are playing fast and loose with that dedication, and 2) we are overlooking the contradictions between their words and deeds.
The simpler way to say that is probably "by their fruits shall you know them." The good or the evil in something become apparent by the harmony or the disharmony within the whole, however imperfect the view.
Grace plays a role here as well, of course, for Ramakrishna, as it similarly would for a Christian. This helps to nurture and strengthen the growing conscience.
Your mileage may vary, but every case of mistaken trust I have faced came from jumping the gun and avoiding the obvious signs. They were going to be who they were, and I let a powerful passion blind my judgment. Those errors are not to be agonized over, for they can be transformed into a lesson for the next time.
Yes, you are quite right that we don't start "cold". Nothing comes from nothing. There is rightly discerning a guru, and THEN there is obediently following him. But with only a piece of the whole to work with, trust will be required. If those intentions are pure, Providence does provide.
Good food for thought here. Lots to think about in terms of forming one's judgement. Especially as a parent responsible for helping little people to form theirs.
DeleteProvidence does provide, but sometimes not without a lot of pain.